Richard Dawkins & an Intelligent Response

Jayme

I'm not sure what the general response to "Christian" is where you are, but in the various places I am, it can be quite negative, to say the least. Where I am is a general movement away from Christianity - away from the 'narrowmindedness' and arrogance and ridiculous beliefs. Richard Dawkins & his anti-Christian stand have given support to a huge swing to proving things via science and logic, towards atheism as a legitimate perspective and belief. What I have found, in attempting to engage these people in a dialogue, is that the instance the Bible is brought up, they turn off.

I raised this question on the prior board and would like to raise it again ... what writings out there address the thinking/beliefs like Dawkins and Sam Harris face-to-face? In their language? The reason I ask this is my brother is a very intelligent and perceptive man. He does have a faith but also has some very big questions - and not ones that scripture has a clear answer to. I would like to find some books written by Christians that address this new atheism from an intelligent perspective, one that does not use circular reasoning to support its stand but rather uses the intelligence and "science" akin to Dawkins to refute his claims and thus bring more thought and respect to the table that has these types of discussions.

Are there any such writings like what I'm seeking? It's almost like, at times, there are 2 camps - those that are intelligent, questioning and atheistic vs those that have their head in the clouds, no longer think and quote scripture without any ability to communicate with 'the real world'. Please tell me there are people in the middle somewhere ....

Thank you for your help ...

MJG791

I imagine if anyone here would be able to answer your question, it would be Marvin.

Yet, I have never found any author to be able to present a solid argument for faith with an intelligence and science akin to Dawkins.

For me, one has to find ways to move the argument away from "science v God" to one where faith celebrates science and truth. Until this happens, the debate will never change. And I think it will take Christian leaders with more than a bible college degree to do so.

forestwalker

To be frank, if someone finds Dawkins' attacks on religion compelling they're too-well indoctrinated in hate and narrow-mindedness to be convinced of much of anything. As good as his science is, whenever he turns to the topic of religion his logic and perception are little better than those of some ultra-patriotic Christian fundamentalist talking about Islam. The best strategy is to try to get to the heart of the matter and discuss the irrational biases and false historical narrative that underlie the hatred. Only once those are out in the open can you have a real conversation.

D.B. Hart's Atheist Delusions is a decent place to start though his prose and temperament are not totally to my liking (the prose is flowery and he can be a somewhat caustic).

Marvin

MJG791 said:
I imagine if anyone here would be able to answer your question, it would be Marvin.

Yet, I have never found any author to be able to present a solid argument for faith with an intelligence and science akin to Dawkins.

For me, one has to find ways to move the argument away from "science v God" to one where faith celebrates science and truth. Until this happens, the debate will never change. And I think it will take Christian leaders with more than a bible college degree to do so.

Thanks for the compliment Matt, but meeting the new atheists on their own ground with a definitive answer is a tall order. What post-secondary education I do have is in Science and Technical matters and I have been thinking about this problem already. In fact i came to this site after reading a book entitled: "The Fall of the Evangelical Nation." It came as something of a shock to me to realize that Christianity is in such a decline. I also read the book: "Saving Leonardo" I can't remember the author's name right now, but her theme about reductionism is I believe something really worth considering: Life consists of an upper story and well as the ground level as in a house and losing the upper story is not a good thing to happen. I believe we are living in an age of decline and darkness and the best thing for Christians to do is to work at overcoming the the forces of disintegration: The Culture of Narcissism, The Fanaticizing Consciousness, and the Phantasmagoria; the fog of unreality caused by polarization, propaganda, deception, self-deception etc.

I just recently read some material on televangelists, who have a sense of entitlement and bad boundaries; They misuse their tax-exempt status to accumulate wealth etc. They are audacious in their criticisms of secular culture, although they may be correct on some of their points, being fanaticized is not the way to do things. It is self-destructive.

I will probably add more to this thread later.

Adam

What's So Great About Christianity is a great response to the New Athiest movement and those individuals imparticular. It is written by Dinesh D'Souza

pal

Hi jayme. I am often bemused by the way the anti-christian scientists, and the anti-science christians both seem to miss the point.

For me, science and christianity answer different questions, which are not mutually exclusive. Science answers the "how" and "when" questions, while christianity looks as the issues of "who" and "why". In a recent televised debate here in Australia, Dawkins was posed a "why" question by a member of the live audience and could only answer by ridiculing the question, claiming that it makes no sense to even ask why because the whole concept of "why" is ridiculous... It;s outside of his worldview. In my book, proving that the parting of the Red Sea (for example) was caused by a tsunami, doesn't even look at the issue that God triggered the tsunami at the precise moment and in the precise location required to achieve a desired outcome. Understanding what tool was used, doesn't discredit the craftsman.

MJG791

Pal, thats a very interesting point. Science answering the How and When when Faith seeks to answer the Who and Why. Unfortunately, I think both Science AND Faith have tried to move into each other's questions.

billy_mcmahon

Very good thoughts.. and question as well. I've seen the 2 camps forming when confronted with the "new atheism" of people like Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. It's unfortunate how polarized and utterly bitter things have become at times. The "friendly" or "classical" atheism of someone like Bertrand Russell can be all too rare nowadays.

I've found that there are several Christians in academia that offer constructive and well-developed responses to Dawkins and others (rather than simply raising a theological middle finger... ha!). I studied philosophy at Baylor University and a well-known name in the world of philosophy of religion is C. Stephen Evans. He's a really neat guy and I'd encourage you to check out some of his work. Extremely educated and articulate..

I actually have been reflecting on this question lately after seeing a Discovery Channel special with Stephen Hawking... here are some more thoughts if you want:
http://billyymcmahon.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/enlightenment-woes-in-science/

MJG791

Billy,

That was a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Warren

About 18 months ago I saw a great critique of Richard Dawkins failure to engage at the sophisticated level of Christianity, but only ever at a Sunday School (my words) understanding. Does anyone have a copy of that critique? I can't find it any more

JMatthanBrown

Jayme, I think it's great that your brother has deep questions--you should always encourage him to keep asking them. Christianity is not an irrational, illogical, unscientific, religion; on the contrary, many of the most brilliant minds in Western History and the majority of the most famous scientists were Christians (or, at least, held what might be termed a Christian worldview). There are thousands of books which have been written over the course of thousands of years defending Christian beliefs and practices. If you are looking for philosophical responses to arguments by Dawkins and Harris you might start with these two books:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Great-Good-Reasonable-Responsible/dp/0830837264/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342748438&sr=1-1&keywords=god+is+good+god+is+great

http://www.amazon.com/Is-God-Moral-Monster-Testament/dp/0801072751/ref=pd_sim_b_2

These books are written for lay readers and deal directly with the "New Atheist" movement and their attacks on religion.

I also recommend this book by Francis Schaeffer which deals with contrasting world views and the truth of Christianity:

http://www.amazon.com/Is-God-Moral-Monster-Testament/dp/0801072751/ref=pd_sim_b_2

and anything written by Peter Kreeft is both enjoyable and profound.

These are all great books and, again, designed for the lay reader. Don't get me wrong, they deal with deep, challenging and thought-provoking material; but they are written in a non academic style (just like The God Delusion).

I hope you find this helpful!

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