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Love and Power
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236

    LOVE AND POWER: ............................. "The fallacy of the juxtaposition of love and power comes from our seeing love purely as an emotion and power solely as a force of compulsion. We need to understand them both as ontological, as states of being or processes." ............................... "When love and power are seen as opposites, "love" tends to be the abject surrender of one partner and subtle (or not so subtle) domination by the other. These are often the sadomasochistic marriages." ...... These two quotes are from the book: "Power and Innocence -- A search for the sources of violence" by Rollo May

    The book: "Power and Innocence" was written in 1972. Looking backward over the last 40 years, it should be clear that we are living in an increasing strong "Culture of Narcissism" and that his statements were correct. There is increasing sadistic, masochistic, and parasitic tendencies in our time.

    Rollo May distinguished between five types of power in his book: 1. Exploitative Power ... 2. Manipulative Power ..... 3. Competitive Power ..... 4. Nutrient Power .... 5. Integrative Power ........... The first two kinds of power are destructive, the third, competitive power can be destructive or constructive, the last two kinds of power are constructive.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • ringnutringnut March 2012
    Posts: 1,668
    Marvin, can you elaborate on the last two? I get the others, but not 4 and 5.
    'Never underestimate what god can do with really shitty materials.' Robin V
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236
    Nutrient power is power for the other, such as; parents for their children, teachers for their students, political, and diplomatic power and it comes of out a concern for the welfare of the group.


    Integrative Power is power with the other person, my power then abets my neighbor's power. I think of it as a kind of good synergy.

    I had intended to spend more time on this topic, but there didn't seem to be much interest in it. I might do some more reading in the book and elaborate more. I read this book carefully about 20 years ago.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • SephSeph March 2012
    Posts: 5,487
    I'm not sure whether we're talking about the same things here or not, but I don't believe certain divine 'traits' are mutually applicable.

    I have long since ceased believing God can be both omnipotent and omni-benevolent.
    Syncretism is akin to wringing the truth out of ten thousand lies

    The Woven
    The Symbiot; a novella

    "It seems in some circles, thinking is heretical"
    ringnut
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236
    Actually Seph, I had really intended this thread to about culture and not religion, and it is part of my interest in Christian Prophetic Pragmatism, but since you mentioned it, for all it is worth, this is A.J. Heschel's take on that question: God has an unchanging pathos or sympathetic concern for whatever is good and indifference towards what is not good or bad. the opposite of love is indifference and not hate. And I would think that the opposite of indifference is love, hate, or pity etc. Indifference, I would think is much better than hate. ...... And although, I have an interest in Christian Prophetic Pragmatism, I don't take it to be the all-in-all solution or great golden egg.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236
    I believe that it safe to assume that God would not use the first three types of power, but he would use nutrient power; power for others and Nikolai Berdyeav had a term for the integrative power between God and man: Theandric Power
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236
    I would think that the ideal kind of nutrient power would be authoritative rather than the more corrupt authoritarian (dominating) or permissiveness (non-interacting without competent sanctioning).
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • ringnutringnut March 2012
    Posts: 1,668
    Marvin said:

    Nutrient power is power for the other, such as; parents for their children, teachers for their students, political, and diplomatic power and it comes of out a concern for the welfare of the group.


    Integrative Power is power with the other person, my power then abets my neighbor's power. I think of it as a kind of good synergy.



    ...and love is the driving force behind these kinds of power?

    'Never underestimate what god can do with really shitty materials.' Robin V
  • MarvinMarvin March 2012
    Posts: 236
    I believe that Love is correct term to use.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin October 2012
    Posts: 236

    The Ontological Pair:
    Ontological Grounding: Both love and power have ontological status. Both love and power are a part of every individual/person's picture or is in the shadow of every individual/person's picture in some way. It is necessary to have a good grasp on both to gain ontological depth, failure to do this results in shallowness.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin October 2012
    Posts: 236

    Love and Power: Can love be coupled with power and used against anything at all?.... This might seem to be a non-sense question, but the fact is that some people actually believe that love is no more than masochism or corrupt submissiveness. Integral love and power should rightfully be used against seduction, coercion, and deception in the most optimal way possible, but those who use manipulation and exploitation always have the initial advantage, but the consequences are always to their disadvantage.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
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